Public Scholarship

27:36Good morning and welcome to Black Coffee and Cuisine Radio. It's 10.30 a.m. July 17th on this beautiful Friday. Happy Friday, everybody. 88 degrees outside is Black Coffee and Cuisine Radio. Brought to you by the warmest coffee shop in America. Happy Friday, everybody. Take it easy out there on your morning commute. It's about 10.30 a.m. Black Coffee. and cuisine radio.

33:01Coffee and cuisine radio. I'm your host, Chris Ross. And it's Friday, y'all. Friday, y'all. 88 degrees outside. Got a great conversation coming up with Mr. Alexander Holt. So make sure you lock in with us. And we'll be back with that great conversation. So make sure you lock in and stay tuned. Tell a friend. Black Coffee and Cuisine Radio, we'll live. And again, this broadcast is brought to you by the warmest coffee shop in America. Happy Friday, 88 degrees. It's July 17, 1035 a.m. And I'm your host, Chris Ross. We'll be right back. Black Coffee and Cuisine Radio.

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36:33Be sure you lock in, lock in with us. Happy Friday, everybody. We're going to give you guys a moment. We'll play one more track for you in just a moment. On this beautiful Friday, 88 degrees. Black Coffee and Cuisine Radio. It's Friday, y'all. It's Friday. Happy weekend. Listen, we're going to go ahead and get to the money. Get to the money. Get to the bag. Happy Friday. Be happy with whatever you're doing with your life. This is Black Coffee and Cuisine Radio. Happy Friday.

37:10Wrong track, y'all. We got the right track now. And now we're going to get to the money, all right? Get to the money. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning.

39:50All right. Welcome, welcome back to Black Coffee and Cuisine Radio. I hope you guys enjoyed the sounds brought to you by Black Coffee and Cuisine. It's Happy Friday, everybody. Again, it's 88 degrees outside. We have a wonderful guest with us on today. We have Mr. Alexander. Hold. How are you, Alexander? I am well. Happy I made it. How are we this morning?

40:17Doing great, man. I'm glad you was able to slide in here on this, man. It's good to see you, sir. You're doing all right? I can't complain. Lots of stuff going on, but you woke up. It's a beautiful day. It's a beautiful day, right? It's a beautiful company. That's right. That's right. You know what I'm saying? I love it. So listen, Alexander, can you tell the folks, I told him your name, can you tell the, folks, what you do, man. Absolutely. My name, of course, is Alexander Holt. I am a visiting research assistant professor in sociology at the University of Wake Forest, I'm in a doctoral candidate at University of Texas at Austin. And I research mental health, well-being, stress, and youth amongst many other things. I love it. I love it. You know, we had a great conversation actually

41:01before this conversation, which actually brought you to the platform, which I was so glad. First of all, he is a lawyer customer. He comes in, him and his wife, they come in and they get some great beverages and pastries, whatever they like. Yes, indeed. Because Alexander is always on his grind. He's always busy, busy, busy, busy. And it was good that we was able to talk a little bit to find out even more about not only our customers, but, you know, a person who comes in and talks about things that he's passionate about. So can we talk a little bit about your journey and how all of this begin for you. That's just begin about your career choice and everything. And then we'll build from there, Alexander. Absolutely. You know, I never thought I would end up going the professor,

41:43researcher, track. It was never anything on my mind. My mom was first-generation college student. She's got sick selenemia as disabled. You know, she really dug in with youth and children those faces out. And eventually just seeing that and growing up around that, my grandmother, who herself is a school bus driver, and just having education really be a big part of my life. When I decided I wanted to go to school, I was trying to figure out what it was that I was going to do. But like most folks, I wanted to make some money. So I was like, oh, I'm going to go to school. I'm going to go get a business degree. I speak another language. It's like, yeah, I'm going to make it transnational, all that good stuff.

42:24But when I got there, I was I was in the business classes at Wake Forest, and I was reading everything. They were talking about what they do. And I just couldn't vibe with it for some reason. Math wasn't my strong suit, so that didn't work either. And I also got dropped into a sociology class that semester because I booked writing in English in the same semester and you're not supposed to do that. Right, right, right. So they just threw me in what was open, and it was sociology. And we were reading the same things at the same time in the business and sociology class. Yeah. But I was connecting a lot more with the interpretations in sociology. So I ended up taking another course and ended up in a senior level course my freshman year.

43:04And I just really took to it because it gave me language to think about and talk about what it's like to grow up black in America. We like to grow up with a disabled mom, a veteran father. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so as I kept doing it, I was at wake, I was shaking things up with my friends, protesting, all that good stuff.

43:26And eventually, I was like, you know, these people in this department, Dr. Robert Freeland in particular, I want to do what they do because they gave me things that I didn't know. know existed or language I didn't know existed to talk about what I always knew was there. And so I ended up deciding to go to graduate school. And the folks over at Wake were amazing that helped me get there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I set out to study trauma, racial trauma, wrote my master's thesis on that. And then my grandma kept calling me as a school bus driver talking about all this stuff that was happening in Winston-Salem on the buses. and the bus driver shortages that are still going on. Yes. And I was just like, you know, if she calls me one more time and says something crazy happened on the school bus, I'm going to have to dig in because that's what sociologists do.

44:15We examine, we explore, and we try to figure out what's going on in the world so that we can figure out a solution to the things. Yeah, that why, yeah. And so, lo and behold, she called me again, and I had to switch my project up. Yeah, yeah. And so since about 20. I've been trying to figure out what's going on on school buses, how youth and everyone are experiencing these spaces and what it really means for us as a community. Yeah, it's great. I'm glad you, I'm glad you threw me on alley-up on that, too. You know, when I was thinking about that, you know, we were talking about school buses. And I remember in us having that conversation, I drove a school bus for a short period of time, too. And I remember the first thing I said to Alexander, I said,

45:01you know, it's a moving classroom. It's a mobile classroom, literally. And then it sparked something in Alexander to begin to tell me exactly what it is that he was writing.

45:16And when I think about that 8,000 word page, a word that you're writing on, man, I knew that it was, first of all, it was passionate. So, you know, you had a purpose behind those 8,000 words, too, which you'll probably end up being 10,000.

45:44actually ended up 15th. Yeah, I know it, man. I knew it. I knew it would be more because I'm sure that was the very thing you needed to kind of prick that and keep it going. And then here you are now, man. So let's talk about some of the disparities that we see within the school bus culture, if you would, you know. Absolutely. I mean, I think folks see school buses every day, right? Yeah, yeah, we do. We end up behind them. We end up mad because we don't know where we're going fast. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Those of us who have children and the family are really aware of school buses, right? But at the end of the day, something that really struck my attention is that we don't know much about what's going on there.

46:15Right. Folks who do know are the bus drivers, right? That's right, that's right. Students. And those are really the experts that we have. But rarely we sit down and talk to those folks and try to figure out what's happening, what they need, like what the space actually is. Yeah. We've got work, 30 years, 40 years worth of work, right? But it's all focused on, you know, desegregation. It's focused on, you know, making sure that our school bus routes are more efficient, making sure that the kids get there soon enough, right? Things we don't even think about, you know, like you said, unless you've driven or you have kids and our owner's school bus. I think we don't think about the political side to the bus, you know, how the buses are supposed to move.

47:01and where they move and how that could affect gentrification and gerrymandering and all of that. I don't want to go too deep, but I kind of, as we're having this conversation, I'm kind of feeling where you're going in a sense. So, man, keep going. Don't let me interrupt no more, but. No, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a teacher. No interruptions, right? Right. But no, the reality of the situation is, is what we have, right, is important work, right? It talks about those things. But what we don't have, or what we have very little of, is something that it's, you know, what exactly is happening in the school bus, on the school bus. We know that almost 50% of students in the country rely on school buses to get to school every day.

47:52And we also know that black, brown, rule, and low-income children are more likely than everybody else to have to ride the school bus and to ride the school bus for more than an hour one way to get to get to the educational opportunities that they are trying to get, right? So if we've got kids riding the school bus for an hour there, an hour back every day of the school year, why don't we know what exactly is going on there? We've got plenty of work that tells us that what happens in social space, how kids interact with each other, with adults is really important for the mental health, their physical health later on in life. But if this space is so much of their time at such a period in their life when we know they can,

48:30experience lots that will impact them for the rest of their lives. Like, why aren't we, why don't we know more about what that is? And so I tried to figure that out, right? And so I started by doing a ride-along with my grandmother at the time. Okay, got you, got you. And trying to just get a feel for what was going on. I took on the road for four hours. There was a elementary school route, a middle school route, and a high school route, because they're all stacked here in Winston's Day. And we're not going to talk talk about charter school. No, no. We're not. It's even longer. I drove for a charter school for about two years. Yeah. And sometimes those routes were two hours. Absolutely.

49:09You know, sometimes they were very extended because you're going from, if a kid lives, you know, if we're taking a child that lives in the inner city, there may be another child that lives right on the edge of Davidson County. Yep. You know what I'm saying? So those routes were extensive. Absolutely. So, of course, you're dealing with driver burnout, too. Yeah. You know, so go ahead. Go ahead. Just every time you say something, though, it makes me think back to. when I drove a school bus, and you're right. And I'm going to be honest with you, I didn't even think about that until you brought that up. And I was like, wow, you're right. So this that you're doing is necessary. No, yeah. And it's a common reaction, right?

49:43Whenever I tell folks just in the community about what I'm doing, they're like, wow, never thought about that. No, no, I don't. I remember when I was on the bus, this and the other used to happen. And, you know, I don't put my kids on the bus because this and that and the other. Yeah. And, you know, to your point about, like, charter schools, I'm not going to hone in on at too much. But, like, I was a magnet school kid. Like, I went to Paisley, um, here in Winston-Salem. Okay, okay, program. But I was out of district, right? And so I was on the bus at like five o'clock in the morning, and I got off the bus at like 6 p.m. sometimes trying to get to and from the educational opportunities that got me where I am

50:18today. And so I know how much time can, can be spent there. And I know what kind of impact it happened. And so when I rode with my grandmother that one time, um, I saw so much, In that short four hours, I saw the thing that everybody loves to talk about right with bullying and one and this and that and the other. But the other thing, the thing that really, really caught my attention that I saw was joy, right? Yeah. Childhood joy. I saw kids, you know, having fun, singing on the bus, you know, playing with each other. That woo-sah moment for them. After the class. You're back on this moving classroom. Exactly. Exactly. But the thing about it that makes the school bus a little bit different from a classroom.

51:00Right. Is that in the classroom, right, we've got these adults. In most of the school, we've got adults who are managing what our kids are doing very closely. Yes, sir. And that can be a good thing. Yeah, it can be. And it can be a bad thing. It's sometimes our kids need space to breathe and to move. How you agree. The children. Children, yeah. People, right? And so when I noticed on the bus, that kind of pushed back against some of what we have out there. Yeah. That's all about, you know, learning loss and discipline and vulnerability and how children feel unsafe was that there were spaces for children to develop real relationships with each other. Yeah, to develop space and time with their school bus driver, and to just like be creative in lots of ways that we might not remember

51:47being creative as children. Right, right. Because we have to do this adult thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I discovered that, and I was just like, like, that is something that we need to spend some more time examine it. And then I started going back through the research trying to find what I found and it was not there. There were some folks who said it like once or twice, but the vast majority of it was very much centered and focused on the problem. And so we've seen more recently folks trying to get rid of school busing and replace it with walking, biking, car rider lines, all these kinds of things. And I'm making the argument that we need to take us a moment and pause before we do that because we know, or at least I know, I've seen, right,

52:32that this space can mean something very real for our kids. That's true. And as they're growing up and we're getting these different situations that they're having to navigate, as, you know, Winston-Salem puts in a curfew for our youth because they're going places in mass to try and do whatever, right? We're seeing the damage of that. But we're also missing the point that they're doing that. Because they don't know where to go. They don't have the space to engage. And so that's, I think the school bus can be a little bit of a place like that if we set it up to do that safely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right. And I never even thought about that. Now, I do remember as a child, some of our, I remember my bus driver would be creative.

53:20Sometimes we'd listen to music. They have music. Of course, there will be days some days to say, hey, we're going to give everybody. Everybody can get a piece of candy. Yeah. But, you know, as a child, I mean, as an adult, you don't think about that, but as a child, man, that's huge. Yeah. To get a lollipop, to get a snickers, to get some skittles, and listen to some music. And he may say, hey, listen, we're going to let you guys listen to this type of music while we ride. I don't typically listen to this, but I want you guys to have a good time. So when you think about those moments, the creativity needs to be a part of that atmosphere too. Absolutely. I got you. Because from the time, yeah. They're the first person that you see, that bus driver.

53:59The first one in the morning. And the last person that they see. And it's really, they're the, they are the first point of contact for the school bus. I mean, for the school system. Yes, that's right. That's the first thing. The representation. You're right. Yeah. That's right. And you know, now your school bus drivers can't play music, right? No. They can't necessarily do a bunch of other things. And as my grandmother reminds me, right, that's very much a safety thing. Yeah, sure it is. And at the same time, right, if we do school bus driving right, right, your school. buses and your school bus drivers become new social workers. New community points of contact. It's a good point. Like, I've got my grown up in this town where my grandmother drove, she drove for 20 years here.

54:38Wow. You have no idea how many times we were just out in public going about our business and we ran across former students of hers. Yeah. And she was a stickler for the rules. She was by the letter. It was going to be, you don't do what we're supposed to do. You know what these rules are. And if you don't, I'm going to tell you. But what would happen, right, was over time. And as she was a stickler for those rules, but made them understand that this was about their safety, about their well-being, she also developed relationships with these children. Which is important. And so these kids, sometimes grown-ups now, adults, right, would come up to us. And be like, you were my bus driver back in the day. I hated you because you were just so tough.

55:15You were, like, no nonsense. You didn't play. But now as an adult, I realize, and like, later into my life on your school bus, I realized that you cared about us. Sometimes in ways that we just. just didn't have in other spaces. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so now I teach my kids the things that you were teaching me on the school bus. And that is one of the things that she took to her role that a lot of school bus drivers I find do also take to their role that makes the space important. So you got these two sides, right? Yeah. Space for kids to just be themselves, do what they can, do what they want, because the school bus driver got to keep the bus in the road, but they can't really get on, get on everybody all the

55:51time. That's right. And you have this piece where the school bus drivers themselves can act. have points of connection, community connection, emotional and psychological development, well-being to give kids skills that they need to succeed in life and make kids know that they're cared about. And we know from lots of research in lots of different areas that that is super important for developing healthy humans or good parts of our community and are just able to feel good and build worlds that we want to be in. Yeah. In you writing your paper and doing your due diligence with your research, Alexander, what are some of the things that you were able to come up with. I think you alluded to it a little bit, but I know it's more.

56:31And I would love to know, not unless you want to save that. You want to bulge off too much. It's going to come out. There's so much to write about that I can give you some snippets. Okay, yeah, give us some snippets then, if you don't mind, man. So what exactly you're trying to hear? What is it? Just even more detail from the standpoint of the creativity part and the safety part of it, because I do agree with you, there needs to be a way to be. creative and safe while kids are traveling on the school bus. Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, I feel like the school district and lots of other groups of people, like, have really got the safety thing down. Yeah, yeah. Right? We've got rules. We've got consequences. Yeah.

57:12School bus drivers have articulated that sometimes those consequences are harder to enforce because of the kind of the kind of in-between nature of the school bus, like whose space really is it. Okay, yeah. But at the same time. that we have these rules and what have you. We also have to remember, right, that children aren't, like, their point is not just to become adults, right? They're not, like, developing adults. That's one of the things that some folks used to think, but we're understanding is not right. Children are full human beings in and of themselves, and so we have to engage them as such. And so when we talk about this creativity, there's this concept called childhood futurity, right? And so you move, it's this idea of moving.

57:55in the present in ways that build out creative futures that we might not necessarily think could happen just because of the creativity that children just own. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, they do. And so when we think about this idea of childhood futurity, and we look at all of the stuff going around or going on around in the world right now, we're wracking our brains trying to figure out like what to do about it. Yeah, man. Like kids just kind of, they just figure it out because they have the room and the space to be created. That's true. Futurity building people, right? And sometimes they reproduce what we do that's bad. And other times they just find solutions that are way past what we're trying to do.

58:39And so I feel like one of the bigger findings that I'm coming into is that if we continue to manage the safety bit in some of the ways that we have. But also make ourselves understand that like letting off of their necks a little bit can actually have a positive impact and give them room and space to grow in really good ways, then we might see them develop new avenues, new ways of communicating with each other, new ways of being in community that we can learn from and that we can build out into bigger solutions for ourselves. And so I think one of the ways that we have to really start thinking about moving forward with our youth, especially as folks lose spaces to just be themselves, to be kids, right?

59:23is allowing for the school bus to be that space and allowing for, or not just allowing, but encouraging that kind of engagement, that kind of creativity, that kind of fun in this location where they don't necessarily have to be working on school or dealing with whatever difficulties or challenges that they have at home, like you've got this what we might consider dead time, but we need to look at it not as dead time, but as lively time. Hannah Dyer is a researcher in childhood studies who explicitly talks about and thinks about this concept of childhood future. Okay. And so really leaning into the ways that they can remix and cut and stitch to shout out one of my colleagues, Misha Cardenas, the ways of being people, gendered people, sexualized

1:00:18people, and I know that's uncomfortable, right, because kids do all kinds of things. But also, you know, racialized people, right? Figuring out ways to navigate those things in ways that we might not recognize or understand, but could be positive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes they're negative, and we have to be careful about that, and we have to make sure they understand the difference. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But allowing them the room and the space to do that. Yeah. And helping the school bus become a place where that's possible. Yeah. There's another colleague of mine, Teresa Heist from Hill and Rebecca A. London, who talk about this same exact kind of thing. but in lunchrooms, right? And so they did the same type of thing I'm doing,

1:00:56but they were looking at lunchrooms as spaces where kids can do what they want, have fun, be themselves. And spaces where kids are like, why are they always just managing what it is that I'm doing all the time when this is supposed to just be time for us? And they found that it's important, it's necessary. Kids do better when they have that space. And so I want us to think about the ways we can do that on the school bus as well. Keep the safety, but also open it up in a way that a way that a lot. allows them to be, to breathe. Because sometimes this is the only space that they have in their lives where there aren't overwhelming expectations of them. Because as the world gets more dangerous, we get more intentional and more scared, more focused

1:01:42on what we can do to keep our kids safe for good reason. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But it can be constricting in ways that is not good for our kids. And so, yeah. This conversation is very refreshing because it's, I don't think I've had a conversation with a sociologist, though. So it brings a lot of things as I'm listening to you, I'm like, wow, I've never heard it said that way to we find ourselves almost kind of killing the voice of our children a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. And I like what you said. With proper management, with proper managing and guidance, then the outcome could be beautiful. Yeah. So I like that perspective and I like that thought process on it, too. I don't think I've ever thought of it that way either.

1:02:25So I think it's important when we have these conversations, these are why these conversations are so important, too, Alexander. So that we're not ignorant, that we don't look at things one-sided, that we have to have a conversation because everybody has a perspective on things. And sometimes it could be right. Sometimes we may not agree. Right. And that's okay, too. It's the human experience. Exactly. You know, Alexander, this conversation is, it is so much more. we can talk about. Oh, of course. But at the same time, I don't want to divulge of too much because there is something that you're working on in the greatest scheme of things. And I'm sure you're going to take this all the way to the top. I can imagine. Because I can hear the passion

1:03:10that you have for this and this movement. What do you think we can do as parents to kind of help this move along the way it should so that we can be, proactive and be a part of this. What do we need to do to assist in this? What can we do? Would that start? Would you having meetings? Or how would that start? I don't want to go too far. No, absolutely. Yeah. But, you know, how, how us, how can we as parents get on a part of this and actually get an opportunity? I guess we start in here with this right here. This begins it. But what else could we do to be a part to help this movement? happen too, though, Alexander? Absolutely. I mean, well, one of the bigger things that we can do, I'll give you two kinds of buckets, right? One thing that we can do is really, you know,

1:04:03take a step back sometimes and recognize that although we've been there, although we know what is want to do, generally speaking, although we don't want them to make the mistakes that we made. True. We also can engage with them as full humans, as full people. And that, and sometimes that means like being uncomfortable with what they say with what they're. they say. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And sometimes it means telling them that I understand you're a full human. I get it. I appreciate your perspective, and we're still doing this over here. Right, right, right, right. But, like, really making that mental shift for ourselves can do a lot to help our kids recognize that our adults in their life are not just authority figures, but folks who

1:04:42are trying to guide them along. And so Sylvia Winter, Caribbean scholar, Caribbeanist scholar, she does all kinds of really intense work. She talks about this idea of, um, um, this idea of being, of being and becoming human, right? And one of the things she talks about is finding a new ceremony, new ways to usher our kids into life. So I feel like if we do that step back, we can help them do that. But more concretely, the research is ongoing. Yeah, I'm still doing research until December of this year. And I came back to Winston-Salem to do it because it's important research for our community and I care about this community. It's important for everybody. Sure, sure. That's right. Everywhere. But if folks want to really help our kids

1:05:29get involved with this line of thinking, then I mean, I'd be, I'd love to find students who would like to participate with me because I'm helping them work through their experiences on the school bus by having them create me about what those experiences are and tell me what it looks like, what it feels like. So we can get a sense for what's good and what is not, right? So I need family. to engage. Yeah, absolutely. And I also need school bus drivers to engage because I want both sides of the story, right? So I'm looking for school bus drivers to interview and to tell me about their experiences. I'm looking for students and families to interview and to do this photo, meme documentation as well. And so if you're interested, if anything that you guys heard today,

1:06:17is interesting to you and you are a parent of a school bus. riding child or a school bus driver yourself or somebody else who works in transportation in this town, like, hit me up, right? Because I need people. And the only way we figure out how to make things better for people is with people. We can talk about, we can talk about. We can talk about that. But we don't fix it until we work with folks. And so yeah. Yeah, I love that. And you know, I love what you said a few minutes ago. And building relationships is, communication is a big component of that, too. And I think sometimes, to your point, you know, a lot of us, we have those old school values. Absolutely. Shut up, be quiet, boy, and sit down.

1:07:02Yeah. How many facts? And we never really take the time to actually hear and communicate with our children, as you said, as humans. Because we're just thinking from an old way of thinking, saying, now sit down, what I say is what I say. Yeah. And really not taking the time. Now, of course, you know, they're still growing. No, yeah. And we do know more than them. Right, right. Absolutely. That's right. But I think it is important that we do build that relationship and do take the time to listen. Absolutely. And communicate effectively so that we can have a hold adult one day. I think that's important because it's going to build them as they get older to and their relationships will be better. Yeah. And communication skills will be better. So we are building a whole human to become.

1:07:48Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So, so Alexander, thank you so much for taking out a little bit of time of your day to talk about, yeah, man, because I'm telling you, when we, when we had the conversation, I was like, man, I got to talk to that. That's different, for one. It's a different conversation, one that I've never really even thought about. Oh, yeah. My university wasn't sure it was a real conversation to be having, but I convinced them. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So listen, man, I'm going to give you a moment, man, to take this time out. You know, we always like for our. our guests to come on. And if you could say something positive to that next generation that could help them become better. And also, how can folks get in contact with you in closing? So you have

1:08:31this space and time to do so. It's on you, Alexander. Absolutely. Well, for anybody who who is watching, who anybody who tuned in, thank you, first of all, for supporting black coffee and cuisine. I love this place. Yes, sir. But also, if you want to get involved or you know folks who you think should be involved, you can email me at Holt, A.J. 1. 6 at wfu.edu. And we can start a conversation. I can get you guys involved. I'll also ask you to post some information about it after. And as far as the positive bit is concerned, just like understand that our kids are dealing with a lot, just like we are. And they're also creating a lot, right? And so we just have to be open enough to that creation, to that joy, to that excitement that we

1:09:16used to remember all the time as kids and recognize when that's. happening, even if we have to help them shape it a little bit more. And so, yeah, like, I just hope everything goes well. I hope we get the opportunity to build our lives and our community out better. And I think this might be one way to do it. I love it. Alexander, Mr. Holt, Alexander the Holt. Dr. Holt, eventually, hopefully. Come on. It's coming, man. Dr. Holt. That's right. We're going to speak it already. Yes, sir. So, man, thank you again for taking this time to spend with us to talk about something very important, something I'll be honest, which I never thought about. And being that I was a school bus driver, I think it's very, very valuable and what you have to

1:10:00bring to the table with this, man. And I wish you nothing but success on this. And I believe this is what this is all about. You know, we have to experience change. Change is good. Yeah. It can be uncomfortable. Absolutely. But it will move the culture forward, man. And I appreciate you so much, man. And what you're drinking on? What you got today? Yeah, I got me a Josephine Baker. All right. All right. A car over there in the back always gets me right. Yes, he does. And I think this is the one I've ordered the most. I paid my way through the menu. That's right. You have. My regular. That's it. I love it. So listen, make sure you guys make your way down to Black Coffee and Cuisine. We're located at 114th and 30th Street right here in the beautiful city of Winston-Salem, North Carolina.

1:10:38We're right here in the Intergenerational Center for Arts and Wellness. Yes, sir. If you come right in, if you go to the right, you'll missus. If you come to the left, and you'll spot on. And you'll see this beautiful awning. right behind me. And of course, a beautiful logo. Again, this is Black Coffee and Cuisine. And this was our conversation with, with Doctor. I'm going to go ahead and say it for you. Dr. Alexander Holt in the future. Thank you. We thank you, Mr. Holt, again, for your time. Thank you for yours. Absolutely. And thank you for continue to bring about change and moving the culture forward, man. I appreciate it. That's it. That's it. Hey, listen, this is Black Coffee and Cuisine Radio. You guys have an amazing day. And I'm going to keep the

1:11:16sounds going as I switch it back over to a single view. Happy Friday, everybody. Again, 88 degrees. We're going to end this feed in just a moment at 1130. Happy Friday. 88 degrees. I'm Chris Ross.